Re: Werewolf game thread

[The Mouth of Sauron]

If that is true, I vote no lynch to equal the no lynch and princess jasmine and let the mayor decide. Jasmine is the only one to have justified her vote for suspicious reasons.

We don't know if the wolves know who each other is via codeword. You guys saying to each other that "the jig is up" indicates to me that there is a code word for wolves to identify each other.

[Princess Jasmine]

If that is true, I vote no lynch to equal the no lynch and princess jasmine and let the mayor decide. Jasmine is the only one to have justified her vote for suspicious reasons.

We don't know if the wolves know who each other is via codeword. You guys saying to each other that "the jig is up" indicates to me that there is a code word for wolves to identify each other.

Exactly! There definitely could be and in my opinion there is a way for the wolves to know each other. Come on they are wolves, whether it be codeword or other mechanism.

And on self preservation. Of course there is that part to it heh. Would be lying to refuse that. BUT before your vote IceIce there was no real chance of me being Lynched, and again your comments to my lack of "participation" in the thread so far. To explain myself in regards to this as it appears to be contentious issue to several people.

When I was told about this threat to our village I did not realise it was supposed to involved so much time spent perusing and discussing over the forums. I am new to Roanoke so if my ignorance has led to people wanting to be rid of me than that is fair enough. I also had demands on my time for the first several days due to an elderly family member requiring my help. For this I apologise.

BUT if it is a thing in this type of game to remove people because participation is not up to such a high standard over the election week then go right ahead. I will not hold it against anyone. But remember removing me will only benefit the wolves. I have stated why I am now the painted target. I believe this to be the case and that is fine. It will be interesting to watch you all be consumed by fear, suspicion and ultimately excruciating though short lived pain when your throats are being ripped out by the wolves.

[Princess Jasmine]

Okay Princess Jasmine let us get something straight. We have been told previously by the Mod that wolves will not know who each other are until N1.

Where was this written? I cannot remember where this was said. If so I apologise. But I have also been led to believe that wolves may have the ability to discern who the other wolves are by words or actions that would indicate they are also wolf. This may not be telling them explicitly who the other wolves are but it effectively is.

Again, completely new to Roanoke so unsure of roles, responsibilities and basically the generally running of the town... ^.^

[Renesmee]

Wow walls of text.
As I'm no longer the top, I will not claim.
Jasmine, I suggest you claim your role - though you may want to wait for Luxray to weigh in (though I wouldn't wait too long).

With regards to 'the jig is up', that's because I expect Ice and Putin have figured out my IRL identity. If the purpose of the setup is that Day 1 wolves don't know each other, I don't think they'd have a code word in their role.

[Renesmee]

If I get bit, I claim, if I don't, I cut wood. It's a great role, the Wolves have to spend two adjacent nights attacking me or I don't die.

My bad. I misread and thought you needed to use a tool every night, regardless of whether or not you were targeted.

Jasmine, you do realise that if you are town and we win, you win too even if we lynch you, right? Sure, we might have made a mistake, but you can still hope for us to course correct and achieve victory.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Jasmine, I suggest you claim your role - though you may want to wait for Luxray to weigh in (though I wouldn't wait too long).

More demanding others claim their role without you doing it either, and without answering any of my previous attempts to make you do the same. This bitch is wolfy as fuck.

[Luxray]

As it stands at the moment if it was a choice of no lynch or jasmine i would still vote not to lynch.

The only person whom i consider suspect at the moment is renesmee because she keeps trying to get people to reveal roles.

[Putin]

As it stands at the moment if it was a choice of no lynch or jasmine i would still vote not to lynch.

The only person whom i consider suspect at the moment is renesmee because she keeps trying to get people to reveal roles.

Claiming when at L-1, or in this case when at majority near deadline, is another one of those Werewolf staples. I mean, if you'd rather Town waited till after the lynch to get some information... Well that smells like Dog to me.

As it is I can't allow a No-Lynch, even an info lynch would be better, so Vote:Jasmine

Rest assured I'll be active till deadline, if a better wagon pops up I'll jump to that.

[Luxray]

I dont see why youre so keen to lynch someone. Why not throw a vote at reneseme (im just not going to bother spelling it anymore) if you are. Reneseme and yourself seem to be pretty buddy buddy at this point.

But if youre hell bent on a lynch

Vote renesemesmies

[Renesmee]

More demanding others claim their role without you doing it either, and without answering any of my previous attempts to make you do the same.

On phone now so multiple quotes are hard, but did you read either of my previous responses to you asking me to claim? Namely, that my role is either good so I don't want wolves to know about it, or it's bad and I don't want to reveal the good roles by process of elimination.

Also, did you read the part where I said I'd claim at noon if I was still the leading wagon? Keeping my role secret is not going to help if I'm dead - that goes for everybody. Jasmine is the leading wagon at the moment, and if she doesn't claim she's going to get lynched (or so I assume, and if there are people who think otherwise they should speak up ASAP), so if she wants to NOT be lynched she should claim. Like anybody should.

Sure, being forced to claim helps wolves - but it helps wolves more for town to lynch one of their own power roles. At least this way if town power claims, wolves need to spend their own kill to get rid of them.

This is gameplay philosophy and is standard practice in all games I've played before. If you have arguments to the contrary I'd like to hear then, but in the general case I think not claiming unless and until you're about to be lynched is optimum play; and if you do reach that point, you claim everything.

[Leakycauldron]

This will be the last update before the deadline. As it stands, at the time of this post, the following will be added to the stockpiles:

2 Food Farmed: Luxray, IceIceBaby
4 Wood Cut: Mouth Of Sauron, Renesmee, FedoraNerd, Saul Goodman
2 Tool Created: Putin, Princess Jasmine.

The mayor has elected to burn two units of wood, so the stockpile will look like this at the end of the day:

1 Food
2 wood
2 tool

So far the lynch-votes are as follows:

[2]Renesdankmaymays:  Princess Jasmine, Luxray
[4]Princess Jasmine: Saul Goodman, Renesmee, Putin, IceIceBaby
[2]No lynch: Fedora, Mouth



As it currently stands, Princess Jasmine would be lynched before nightfall.

The deadline is available here. In the event of any tie, Luxray will make the decision. From this point onwards I'll be using a bold purple to mark the start and end of a day. Thread will be locked at sundown.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

smh

first off, what's the technical difference between honest reveal and being forced to or get lynched? you don't know what roles are in the game, you could be a freakin unkillable god or a worm farmer for all I know. if you mean to kill jasmine, do it, don't whine at them until they give in to your stupid cabal of experienced players.

jasmine should just claim "oh my power is either too good to say or too bad, move the bandwagon on". shit is bad game theory

i hope those avoiding voting for renesmee know more than i do, because their lack of suspicion makes them seem like their working together. vote renesmee since my no lynch vote isn't being heard for whatever reason

[Putin]

I dont see why youre so keen to lynch someone. Why not throw a vote at reneseme (im just not going to bother spelling it anymore) if you are. Reneseme and yourself seem to be pretty buddy buddy at this point.

But if youre hell bent on a lynch

Vote renesemesmies

I'm keen to lynch somebody, because a no-lynch gives us no info, so we will start up D2 exactly as we are now, except that the wolves will have a free kill on a Townie.
I didn't vote Renesemee because that would've only tied her with no lynch, which is what I'm avoiding you choosing, as stated in my last post. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by calling me buddies with Renesemee, as we've established already Wolves don't know each other till tonight.

But fine, unvote

Now you get to pick between Renesemee and Jasmine. If no lynch pops up to majority I'll vote again.

smh

first off, what's the technical difference between honest reveal and being forced to or get lynched? you don't know what roles are in the game, you could be a freakin unkillable god or a worm farmer for all I know. if you mean to kill jasmine, do it, don't whine at them until they give in to your stupid cabal of experienced players.

jasmine should just claim "oh my power is either too good to say or too bad, move the bandwagon on". shit is bad game theory

i hope those avoiding voting for renesmee know more than i do, because their lack of suspicion makes them seem like their working together. vote renesmee since my no lynch vote isn't being heard for whatever reason

The difference is that the town controls the flow of information with their votes. We don't know the roles in this game, true, however, we do know that this game is going to have some sense of balance. We can infer other roles likely power once we see enough of them.
For the final time. Unless there's a non wolf team (Which would be horrible balance) NO ONE IS OR CAN BE WORKING TOGETHER


I suggest that both of the current majorities claim(Renesemee/Jasmine), time is running low and we need some actual discussion.

[Luxray]

Stop trying to get people to claim HOLEY MOLEY

[Putin]

Stop trying to get people to claim HOLEY MOLEY

... The fuck for? Do you just not know how this game works? Are you incapable of reading?
There are several explanations of why we should get a claim. READ THEM!
If you have an objection to those arguments. Then state it!

[The Mouth of Sauron]

I don't understand why claiming is helping though; you're claiming into a vacuum. Explain a couple of steps so I understand where the cabal is coming from?

step one: Everyone claims medium strength roles to not be seen as a target, maybe some people claim townsfolk and are targeted first.

step two: lynch some random person?

step three: have it revealed and still not know what everyone else has.

it's not like jack is choosing to use roles similar to the vanilla game. if someone else dies and has a role very similar to forester, it doesn't mean I can't also be a forester.

it's a 0 sum game

[Renesmee]

OK, given I'm tied for first with Luxray indicated that he would lynch me as a tiebreak, I'll full claim (Putin, you did realise that unvoting Jasmine was essentially a vote for me - I don't like the way you're trying to get two claims for the price of one).

The purpose of claiming in a game where any role could exist is twofold.  One, you can decide whether or not you believe me.  Particularly if my claim is inconsistent with my actions thus far (or indeed, later on), indicating that I'm lying wolf making it up on the spot.  And two, deciding whether the role is worth keeping around, or if you'd prefer to lynch anyway.  It's informing your decision.  Linked to both; if the role is confirmable, you can test the condition and know for sure after that.

I am a Day-aligned Priest.  In the Morning I can resurrect a dead player as vanilla [whatever alignment they were]; but only if their information hasn't been revealed by illumination.  This power costs three food, and costs an extra two every time it's used.

I intended to play this role strictly as backup; it turns a bad scenario (failing to burn the second wood) into a more palatable one, but is too expensive to actively try for.  Hence I cut wood today.

My name is a hint to my role (which should make it pretty clear that I was intending to claim this all along - ie it is true); Renesmee is genetically identical to Elspeth Cullen from Alicorn's Radiance, who can resurrect the dead.  Search Google for

Code:

elspeth "I can resurrect the dead"

if you don't believe me, and a bit more searching will confirm to you that Renesmee = Elspeth, so the link is there.

This is a confirmable role, though not easily.  But if the situation does arise where a) a reasonably town-looking player dies without illumination and b) there are ample food stocks, and they don't get resurrected, I will submit to a lynch without fuss.

I'd prefer everyone moved off me and forced a claim from Jasmine, but she shouldn't claim if you're just going to lynch me anyway.

[Putin]

I don't understand why claiming is helping though; you're claiming into a vacuum. Explain a couple of steps so I understand where the cabal is coming from?

step one: Everyone claims medium strength roles to not be seen as a target, maybe some people claim townsfolk and are targeted first.

step two: lynch some random person?

step three: have it revealed and still not know what everyone else has.

it's not like jack is choosing to use roles similar to the vanilla game. if someone else dies and has a role very similar to forester, it doesn't mean I can't also be a forester.

it's a 0 sum game

Ok, first mistake, we don't want everyone to claim, that's in fact the opposite of what we want. What we want is for the people town suspects to claim, then we evaluate their claim, decide if the risk is worth it and if their claim matches up to their actions(will make more sense later in the game), and either lynch or not, once they are lynched, we get to understand their actions in respect to their role.

That last line. No. Just no. That's not how balance works, While it's not impossible for their to be two Foresters, it's less likely. Jack will have picked roles that are fair to both teams, if we lynch 2 Town Vigs, then there almost certainly can not be any more of them, because that would make the Wolves unlikely to win, and would break balance.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

What is "illuminated"

[Renesmee]

Mouth, I'll point out what I think is wrong with the scenario as you've laid it out.

With step one, it's not everyone claims, it's that the people who have been suspicious enough to lynch get forced to claim, so the suspect pool is already narrowed.  Not everyone will claim medium strength roles; strong town power will claim strong, weak town power will claim weak.  Only wolves lie.  Yes, vanilla town will still get lynched (no reason not to, if you were going to lynch them anyway and were only stopping for a claim), but that's an unavoidable and acceptable consequence.

Step two; not random, suspicious.  For whatever reason.  Also a claim is not a lynch-stopper, it's a 'lynch reconsider with new information'.

Step three, basically.  Once the role is death revealed, you take the information you've learned from it and apply it to the game so far, knowing their alignment.  And if they're town, you can know that they were telling the truth about their role and ability choices, and that they were honest in their suspicions.

Does that help? If you have more arguments, I'm happy to hear them (though as you can see, I'm confident enough in this process that I've followed it already).


Illuminated with the second log of wood.

A second ration of wood may be used up by the mayor to illuminate the darkness. Anyone who dies at night with the fires burning will have their role (and abilities) revealed.

[Putin]

OK, given I'm tied for first with Luxray indicated that he would lynch me as a tiebreak, I'll full claim (Putin, you did realise that unvoting Jasmine was essentially a vote for me - I don't like the way you're trying to get two claims for the price of one).

That's a fair conclusion. Not my intention, but a valid conclusion.

My name is a hint to my role (which should make it pretty clear that I was intending to claim this all along - ie it is true); Renesmee is genetically identical to Elspeth Cullen from Alicorn's Radiance, who can resurrect the dead.  Search Google for

Code:

elspeth "I can resurrect the dead"

I can at least confirm that this makes sense.

Now, on to the claim.
I don't know if I buy it. It seems to have been created to be so expensive that we don't ask you to prove it. Plus it's basically useless with that restriction on the illumination.

On the other hand if it's a fake claim it's a fantastically convoluted one.

[Putin]

Mouth, I'll point out what I think is wrong with the scenario as you've laid it out.

With step one, it's not everyone claims, it's that the people who have been suspicious enough to lynch get forced to claim, so the suspect pool is already narrowed.  Not everyone will claim medium strength roles; strong town power will claim strong, weak town power will claim weak.  Only wolves lie.  Yes, vanilla town will still get lynched (no reason not to, if you were going to lynch them anyway and were only stopping for a claim), but that's an unavoidable and acceptable consequence.

Step two; not random, suspicious.  For whatever reason.  Also a claim is not a lynch-stopper, it's a 'lynch reconsider with new information'.

Step three, basically.  Once the role is death revealed, you take the information you've learned from it and apply it to the game so far, knowing their alignment.  And if they're town, you can know that they were telling the truth about their role and ability choices, and that they were honest in their suspicions.

Does that help? If you have more arguments, I'm happy to hear them (though as you can see, I'm confident enough in this process that I've followed it already).

10 points to Ravenclaw!

But no seriously, that's a good explanation.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Sounds like you guys have devised a great meta-game for yourselves. I don't think it's actually any better than random.

[Renesmee]

It seems to have been created to be so expensive that we don't ask you to prove it. Plus it's basically useless with that restriction on the illumination.

For what it's worth, I suspect when the role was created it wasn't intended to go to someone so fanatical about the value of food (3 Days free from Hunger!) and the necessity of double-burning.

[Renesmee]

Sounds like you guys have devised a great meta-game for yourselves. I don't think it's actually any better than random.

It is indeed fun. But I must ask (and apologies if you've already said so and I missed it) - how do you intend to do better than random?

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