Re: Werewolf game thread

[IceIceBaby]

Because I want to show that I would prefer a lynch whilst currently voting for somebody who doesn't seem likely to get lynched, you don't have any other votes on you so my vote is for you unless somebody else jumps on. Unfortunately because I of the rules of the game we do need to cast votes, it is mandatory. So don't think anything of it, it is more of a symbolic gesture.

[Renesmee]

Vote: Putin

Assumptions:
Lux RoS and Aladdin are town. There are 2 wolves alive.

At what point did Luxray become confirmed town?

I probably should've said that these assumptions were questionable. True.

Yeah, before presenting this as your game-winning master plan.

I fear no wolves.

Granted, far be it from me to outguess the mod. But if the claims we've had so far are true, I'd be pretty annoyed as a wolf; 3 different ways to stymie their kill (Sauron, Putin, and wolfsbane), plus my ability to resurrect (though at least that counts as a depower and has the drawback that it might hit wolf).

I don't believe this claim. I'd like to ask for further elaboration; it's possibly a bit early with 1.5 days until deadline, but Putin is the leading wagon. What do other people - particularly those not on the Putin wagon - think about getting Putin to full claim at this point?


My town read on Alladin is solidifying. His analysis of the game seems transparent and honest.

To clarify, I can only resurrect if there has been no wood burned (no reveals) - to my understanding lynching without second wood will reveal nothing. If I resurrect a wolf, they rise as a wolf without extra abilities. I don't intend to incorporate resurrection into any plan; better case is that people don't die in the first place.

I must say, it would be a brave wolf to NK their buddy in the hopes I'd resurrect them, but it is a possibility worth considering.

Fedora, I wouldn't worry much about Ice's vote on you, particularly if he's who I think he is. Would you support a Putin lynch?

[Renesmee]

Mod clarification request post
I've gathered together the few questions people had into one place for simplicity.

Did the wolves know each other Day 1?
Was that information public?

Does the game end when all wolves are eliminated?

Are wolves able to NK each other?

Under the following circumstances, which of alignment (Day/Night) and role (abilities) will be revealed:
Lynched without illumination?
Night killed without illumination?

[IceIceBaby]

To be honest I don't like Putin's claim because.

1. There wouldn't be two night kill immune rolls in the game, that would seem broken.
2. He said he is not night kill immune but wolf immune, where the mod ai do believe has already said there are only day and night aligned players and that wolves are the only night kill (I could be wrong on that). If this is a subtle way of saying you can't be lynched if a wolf is voting for you then congrats with the subtly of that play.
I would like a Putin claim, but not now, later in the day and possibly not a full claim but a solidification of what he has already said would be the best way to go.
As of now I'm not going to vote for him because of the wagon ot would be too dangerous, the longer the day goes the more info we get.

[Putin]

Vote: Putin

Assumptions:
Lux RoS and Aladdin are town. There are 2 wolves alive.

At what point did Luxray become confirmed town?

I probably should've said that these assumptions were questionable. True.

Yeah, before presenting this as your game-winning master plan.

In my defence, I did say "I think" and ask for opinions rather than trying to steamroll it through, I was clearly hesitant.

I fear no wolves.

Granted, far be it from me to outguess the mod.  But if the claims we've had so far are true, I'd be pretty annoyed as a wolf; 3 different ways to stymie their kill (Sauron, Putin, and wolfsbane), plus my ability to resurrect (though at least that counts as a depower and has the drawback that it might hit wolf).

I'm assuming that the wolves have amazing abilities of their own, because town sure seems like a powerhouse. Your own ability to vanillaise them sorta backs this up.

I don't believe this claim.  I'd like to ask for further elaboration; it's possibly a bit early with 1.5 days until deadline, but Putin is the leading wagon.  What do other people - particularly those not on the Putin wagon - think about getting Putin to full claim at this point?

I would be willing to submit to this as far as possibly, however, there are certain mechanical reasons why I don't think a full claim is a very good idea for Town.

Yeah... that sounds vague and bullshity, if I could make it not sound vague and bullshity I swear I would. >.>

To be honest I don't like Putin's claim because.

1. There wouldn't be two night kill immune rolls in the game, that would seem broken.
2. He said he is not night kill immune but wolf immune, where the mod ai do believe has already said there are only day and night aligned players and that wolves are the only night kill (I could be wrong on that). If this is a subtle way of saying you can't be lynched if a wolf is voting for you then congrats with the subtly of that play.
I would like a Putin claim, but not now, later in the day and possibly not a full claim but a solidification of what he has already said would be the best way to go.
As of now I'm not going to vote for him because of the wagon ot would be too dangerous, the longer the day goes the more info we get.

1. As I said above, I think the woves must have some pretty amazing abilities to counteract the Town ones, but I do understand why you might consider this a bit OP.
2. The mod has never said that the only kill comes from wolves, and I can neither confirm nor deny my inability to be lynched by wolves.
Solidification I can do!
And I'm going to go ahead and Vote: No lynch just to lower my own wagon a bit.

[Renesmee]

I would like a Putin claim, but not now, later in the day and possibly not a full claim but a solidification of what he has already said would be the best way to go.

When do you think would be a good time?

As of now I'm not going to vote for him because of the wagon ot would be too dangerous, the longer the day goes the more info we get.

What's dangerous about the wagon? It's not like they get automatically lynched at majority.

Your own ability to vanillaise them sorta backs this up.

I don't know if you did this on purpose, but vanillarising is something of a misrepresentation of my power. Sure, I can bring them back as vanilla ... but they have to die first, which already puts a pretty big damper on any powers they have.

Putin, why vote No Lynch instead of, you know, your scum reads? Which are again ...?

[Leakycauldron]

Mod clarification request post
I've gathered together the few questions people had into one place for simplicity.

Did the wolves know each other Day 1?
Was that information public?

All people had access to the following: This thread, the General Rules sheet and their Role. This thread and the General rules did not make mention of the wolves communicating, so unless it was part of their Role, they could not have.

Does the game end when all wolves are eliminated?

The game ends when either the wolves outnumber townsfolk, or all wolves are eliminated.

Are wolves able to NK each other?

There is no rule to say they can't in either the General Rules or this thread. It may say on the Role,

Under the following circumstances, which of alignment (Day/Night) and role (abilities) will be revealed:
Lynched without illumination?
Night killed without illumination?

Without burning a second ration of wood, neither the role nor the alignment of either the lynch or night kills will be revealed, except by role-specific circumstances (say, an ability that reads "If the town suffered a Hunger kill, the town's lynch and illumination cost no wood")

[Leakycauldron]

Also either way I think we actually have been misreading the rules, I just reread the and it's stated that lynched players will be revealed as either day or night aligned.

The lynched player is revealed as either Day-Aligned or Night-Aligned.

Also it only ever said that the players role not their alignment would be revealed by the extra burning wood. Thus implying that the role is revealed either way

A second unit of wood may be used up by the mayor to illuminate the darkness. Anyone who dies with the fires burning will have their role (and abilities) revealed (usually the lynched party and the werewolf-kill).

This way we can obviously chose not to revive any wolf killed. That is of course assuming I'm reading these rules right

tl:dr
Role doesn't equal alignment

I apologise, my posts today have been rushed until now for personal reasons. I had Saul update for me using my template for posterity. I'll edit my content to be clearer.

[IceIceBaby]

Would 8 hours before lynch be enough time for a Putin claim? How often do people get on?

Also yes, it may not be as soon as he reaches majority but if I'm not on and something goes haywire and people start voting for him it could easily get to a full vote l, I've seen people get lynched before they even had a chance to post and I don't want that just because I hadn't got on to unvote in time.
I doubt this will happen but there is still no sense in not taking precautions. That being said, if Putin os still the major contender for lynching by the end of the day and I still have no clear idea of who I think might be wolf I will vote for him just to make sure we get that little more information. To be honest Putin I am on the fence about you, though I am still leaning towards town so I another person comes to that stage I'll equally consider placing my vote on them.

[Luxray]

Vote fedora

As stated before I only voted putin as i didnt want a no lynch. But putin was on my list of suspects. At least the bottom of the suspects list

[Putin]

Your own ability to vanillaise them sorta backs this up.

I don't know if you did this on purpose, but vanillarising is something of a misrepresentation of my power.  Sure, I can bring them back as vanilla ... but they have to die first, which already puts a pretty big damper on any powers they have.

This is true.

Putin, why vote No Lynch instead of, you know, your scum reads? Which are again ...?

At the moment, I only have one. Which makes me think that the other is likely hiding in the less active section of the playerbase.

Let me outline a possible scenario.

My scum pick starts M1 as a fresh faced wolf, all full of confidence. If only they knew who their partner was :'(

They decide to chill in the background, voting for the first mayor opportunity that comes up, and flip flopping around until someone nominates them.

Excellent they say, as they quickly agree to take on the harsh responsibility and start building plans for the Town's resource management, gotta get a firm grip on the resources earlier after all.

Not long in they realise that they might not manage to get all the required votes, but look at this, someone else is rapidly gaining support and seems to be following a similar pattern. Maybe that's the other wolf? Great minds think alike after all!

Their first job is of course to cut Wood, wolves need to know what town Power Role they've just eliminated too after all. They start throwing doubts on the person who messed up their assumed partners plan for Town dominance.

A small tussle occurs after a bit of a derpy claim, but look, their partner is backing them up! Guess we both know already, what a boon!

An awkward dance ensues where 'both' wolves try to lead the town and avoid bringing too much attention to their 'partner'

The bright young wolf ends up at the head of the wagon but plays it cool, they will be able to get around this, there's time and their partner seems to know what's up.

BUT WHAT IS THIS? Their partner has just effectively brought them back to the head of the wagon? This must be a very convoluted plan they think to themselves, but even now they play it cool.

They make a claim that is so convoluted and essentially useless but still theoretically helpful that Town will both want to keep them around, and yet not ask for any sort of proof. A master stroke even I must say. And the hero of this story and their partner go back to the old song and dance.

That is, until night falls.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY PARTNER ISN'T PUTIN
The hero is rather put out by this fact. Now they've got lots of ground to make up to throw suspicion on the person they spent a whole day subtly protecting. So they go on the offensive, becoming brash in an attempt to make their not-partner look as bad as possibel as quick as possible.

Which brings us to now. Who fits this description I hear you ask? Who had such a dramatic about face in terms of tone?

Why. None other than Vote: Renesemee

[Putin]

Ok, that got a bit more rambly than I intended...

Still.

[IceIceBaby]

Yeah a bit, I'm pretty sure I got your point but os there a way you could condense that in case I missed something because at the moment I find it hard to kind of paint a picture of or agree with what you're saying.

Vote: Alladin sorry, don't think you're scum, but I did promise Fedora I'd switch votes if somebody voted for him.

[Putin]

Eh, TL;DR I find Renesemee's sudden change of play to be interesting. Compare the mostly relaxed and even apologetic play yesterday to the overt snarkiness used today.

[IceIceBaby]

I feel like you managed to fluff that out quite impressively in your initial post.

[Renesmee]

Would 8 hours before lynch be enough time for a Putin claim? How often do people get on?

I'll be on multiple times from 1pm to 9pm on Friday. Though not in the last couple of hours. So how about noon for Putin's claim/elaboration?

Excellent they say, as they quickly agree to take on the harsh responsibility and start building plans for the Town's resource management, gotta get a firm grip on the resources earlier after all.

Because town ... wouldn't?

Their first job is of course to cut Wood, wolves need to know what town Power Role they've just eliminated too after all.

Why?

They make a claim that is so convoluted and essentially useless but still theoretically helpful that Town will both want to keep them around, and yet not ask for any sort of proof.

Don't answer this unless you want to, but will your claim be any of 'convoluted', 'essentially useless', 'theoretically helpful' or ... 'able to supply proof'?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY PARTNER ISN'T PUTIN

I feel like I could do a similar story about you and Luxray, or even you and I in the opposite direction.

Why go with the evocative story instead of the more traditional case?

Eh, TL;DR I find Renesemee's sudden change of play to be interesting. Compare the mostly relaxed and even apologetic play yesterday to the overt snarkiness used today.

A) Anonymity; you can probably pick the exact post where I decided not to bother.
B) Reaction of the target; Mouth of Sauron reacted very differently from what I would expect of you, if you are who I think you are.

Speaking of, are people still up for maintaining the anonymity? I don't really mind either way; it's fun and has no bearing on roles etc, but it is more information which is typically good.

[Renesmee]

Also, you didn't answer the 'why' part of the question. Where was that scum read here:

And I'm going to go ahead and Vote: No lynch just to lower my own wagon a bit.

You had the pick of any player in the game, the chance to really point the finger at your biggest scum read ... and you voted No Lynch. It's almost like you didn't you didn't want to vote for wolf until you were really forced into it.

[Leakycauldron]

As it stands, at the time of this post, the following will be added to the stockpiles:

4 Food Farmed: Renesmee, Putin, Luxray, FedoraNerd
2 Wood Cut: Return Of Sauron, Alladin
1 Tool Created: IceIceBaby

The mayor has elected to burn two units of wood, so the stockpile will look like this at the end of the day:

3 Food
2 Wood
3 Tool

So far the lynch-votes are as follows:

[1]Putin: Renesmee,
[2]Return of Sauron: Alladin, Return of Sauron
[1]FedoraNerd: Luxray
[1]Luxray: FedoraNerd
[1]Renesmee: Putin
[1]Aladdin: IceIceBaby,

As it currently stands, Return of Sauron will be lynched at deadline.

Here's a link to the Sundown deadline

[FedoraNerd]

I'm going to keep this simple:

Luxray's basis for his wolfsbane gambit was that he feared that the wolves would see him as a threat. He said that this was because he could choose a wolf to be lynched in case of tie.

I said that unless he had investigative powers, which he has not alluded to or even hinted at, his guess was as good as any towns'. Thus, he would not have had the option to steer the vote towards a wolf since he doesn't know which one is a wolf any more than the rest of us.

Furthermore, when he removed his vote earlier in the day, he had removed the possibility of a tied vote. He then voted No Lynch, which tied the highest actual lynch vote. He could therefore have easily confirmed No Lynch with his mayor powers, removing any danger to the wolves anyway.

Illumination gives info to both the wolves and to the town, so even making sure that everything is illuminated is NOT necessarily pro-town behavior, especially if it's played up as such.

Luxray's entire response to my argument was to vote Fedora.

Therefore: Luxray has no actual defense against my accusation, and I am a threat to him.

Putin is suspect, sure, but frankly I think we need to get rid of Luxray ASAP. A wolf in charge means that he can steer votes AWAY from wolves, a HUGE boon to the night.

CONFIRM LYNCH LUXRAY



(If there's an equally strong argument against someone else, I.E. Putin, I'll vote that way; but I can't imagine how anyone can do that without tripping my jester alarm.)

[FedoraNerd]

Tl;dr: Luxray defended his action in part by saying that he was going to end up choosing between two lynch targets. That was never going to happen, ergo he lied.

LYNCH ALL LIARS

[Putin]

I feel like you managed to fluff that out quite impressively in your initial post.

I'm... Not actually sure where I was going with that, it sorta spiralled. I blame lack of sleep.

Ok, now begins the arduous task of defending that monstrosity (have I mentioned that I still haven't slept? this should be great.)

Excellent they say, as they quickly agree to take on the harsh responsibility and start building plans for the Town's resource management, gotta get a firm grip on the resources earlier after all.

Because town ... wouldn't?

Not as vehemently

Their first job is of course to cut Wood, wolves need to know what town Power Role they've just eliminated too after all.

Why?

Why... Do wolves need data on the setup? Process of elimination of current threats based on vanquished ones?

They make a claim that is so convoluted and essentially useless but still theoretically helpful that Town will both want to keep them around, and yet not ask for any sort of proof.

Don't answer this unless you want to, but will your claim be any of 'convoluted', 'essentially useless', 'theoretically helpful' or ... 'able to supply proof'?

No, No, Yes, and possibly respectively. But fair point.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MY PARTNER ISN'T PUTIN

I feel like I could do a similar story about you and Luxray, or even you and I in the opposite direction.

I'm less sure, not everyone has had the dramatic about-face you've demonstrated

Why go with the evocative story instead of the more traditional case?

Sleep deprivation.

Eh, TL;DR I find Renesemee's sudden change of play to be interesting. Compare the mostly relaxed and even apologetic play yesterday to the overt snarkiness used today.

A) Anonymity; you can probably pick the exact post where I decided not to bother.
B) Reaction of the target; Mouth of Sauron reacted very differently from what I would expect of you, if you are who I think you are.

Fair. Though you've done a pretty sad job of the former, if you are who I think you are

Speaking of, are people still up for maintaining the anonymity? I don't really mind either way; it's fun and has no bearing on roles etc, but it is more information which is typically good.

I think most of us already 'know' who is who, as to officially confirming, that's up to the mod really.

NOW, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go not exist for a few hours.

[Leakycauldron]

Speaking of, are people still up for maintaining the anonymity? I don't really mind either way; it's fun and has no bearing on roles etc, but it is more information which is typically good.

I think most of us already 'know' who is who, as to officially confirming, that's up to the mod really.

NOW, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go not exist for a few hours.

It was mostly a method of avoiding intimidation for the new people, and to add intrigue to your game. The new people have all been intimidated off anyway, except Luxray, as you all have probably guessed. If you see it having baring to how the game unfolds, there is no rule that binds you to keep it secret, unless otherwise stated in your role.

[Luxray]

Fedoras agreesive "confirm" lynch on me for having one simple vote on him. That seem weird to anyone else.

Im fine with players revealing their names.

[FedoraNerd]

Fedoras agreesive "confirm" lynch on me for having one simple vote on him. That seem weird to anyone else.

Im fine with players revealing their names.

I'm mostly convinced of your wolfiness because of your total lack of response to my arguments and logic, your vote on me is pretty much just icing.

As for the name reveal, I'm cool with whatever the moderator decides. It seemed like it was a pretty interesting way to prevent metagaming, IMO, and I'd rather not lose that; but it's a moderator decision ultimately.

[Luxray]

Except if you scroll back I actually did explain my reasons and your arguments. If you're not happy with that explanation I dont know what to tell you. If I am indeed lynched today I'm almost certain you will be tomorrow for your blatant voting of me when its revealed I was town.

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