Re: Werewolf game thread

[Putin]

I tend to agree with Putin's logic, out of all the WIFOM his arguments have a sound mechanical and statistical basis.

Why thank you.

That said, he claimed NK-immunity himself, which is a bit hypocritical; though at least he hasn't gone so far as to elaborate on the ins and outs of his role plus his vulnerabilities.

This isn't, strictly speaking, true. I never claimed to be NK proof, just too awesome to be killed by a mere wolf.

Having played Jester a few times, I almost suspect Mouth of being a competent jester...

The thought had occurred to me, but...

But he's defended himself without resorting to obvious fallacies.

Bingo, if he was a jester he had a great opportunity to continue with his previous style and damn near force me at least to policy lynch him.

[Leakycauldron]

A lot has happened since my last post, so for clarity's sake, I've posted once more. As it stands, at the time of this post, the following will be added to the stockpiles:

2 Food Farmed: Luxray, IceIceBaby
4 Wood Cut: Mouth Of Sauron, Renesmee, Fedoranerd, Saul Goodman
2 Tool Created: Putin, Princess Jasmine.

The mayor has elected to burn two units of wood, so the stockpile will look like this at the end of the day:

1 Food
2 wood
2 tool

So far the lynch-votes are as follows:

[2]Renesmee: Mouth, IceIceBaby
[2]Mouth: Putin, Renesmee
[1]Princess Jasmine: Saul Goodman
[2]No lynch: Fedora, Luxray


As it currently stands, Luxray would choose between Mouth, Renesmee and No Lynch

The deadline is available here. In the event of any tie, Luxray will make the decision

[Renesmee]

Given it's just over a day until deadline, I was hoping for greater activity.

Mouth of Sauron, you need to answer these questions:

if they don't target me I can expend the power later to swing a vote in my favor.

Elaborate on this.  How does it work, mechanically? And for mod's sake think about what you're saying before you claim something that will only help werewolves.
...
Mouth, given you are immune for tonight, what job do you intend to do Day 2?

This question also need answering:

FedoraNerd, Luxray, IceIceBaby: If No Lynch were impossible, who would you be happiest lynching right now?

I can... Sorta see the logic here? But why would MoS's claimed role make him a priority Wolf Lynch target? He's no threat to the wolves. They can just... Not kill him till end game.

I agree with this.  It's more likely than a convoluted town falseclaim.

This is actually a point in Mouth's favor since now he must gather wood every day, which hurts the wolves more than if he'd said 'I'm a farmer and can avoid nightkill if I gather food'

What do you mean by this? What's the difference between food and wood, given we do need at least one every day?

I will probably switch to Jasmine (or another competing wagon), pending Mouth's response to my questions.  (Which also means if he ignores them again, I'll be fairly happy to ride him to a lynch.)

Luxray, I assume you'll choose No Lynch to break a tie at deadline (going by your current vote).  If not, who would you choose (also consider Jasmine as an option)?

[Luxray]

Didnt see the question posed at me. My vote would be for reneseme on suspicious aggression early on into this game.

[Putin]

Didnt see the question posed at me. My vote would be for reneseme on suspicious aggression early on into this game.

RIP Renesemee

[Putin]

Interesting note on this system, as it stands if Deadline was to fall shortly Ren could just Vote No-Lynch to force that outcome.

@Ren: Would you do that? (stupid no bolding rule, grumble brumble)

Also apparently ties are going to happen more than I anticipated.

[IceIceBaby]

To be honest, at the moment my vote is purely to force a tie so that may skew the likelihood of tie results for D1.
I'm afraid having read everything I don't really have anything extra to contribute at this time in the Day, I would prefer a D1 Lynch for information and probably a D2 No Lynch though just so everybody knows where I stand on that. My thinking being there is always a chance the lynchee will be a wolf, otherwise we do have a little more information to go on about possible game set up.
There will always be the pros and cons to this but that's just what I think at this time.

[Renesmee]

@Ren: Would you do that? (stupid no bolding rule, grumble brumble)

Hmm-mmm.  Probably.  Getting myself lynched is not a good idea.  If you guys want me lynched, get me to majority (though I will claim first).

As a show of goodwill though I will Vote: Princess Jasmine - though I do wish there was ... any other wagon.  Not that I think Jasmine is particularly town, but there are a lot of people cruising on by with nothing.  FWIW, I do believe Mouth's claim (as he elaborated it made more sense from a balance and mechanics standpoint), it's just that the claim itself was terrible.  I wasn't intending on lynching him, simply intended to apply some pressure so he could give some reads.  Which he hasn't done ...

Putin, I suggest you move off Mouth as well.

Preview edit:

I'm afraid having read everything I don't really have anything extra to contribute at this time in the Day, I would prefer a D1 Lynch for information and probably a D2 No Lynch though just so everybody knows where I stand on that.

Lynch of who? I'm guessing I'm not your number one pick if you're intending to force a tie.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Mouth of Sauron, you need to answer these questions:

if they don't target me I can expend the power later to swing a vote in my favor.

Elaborate on this.  How does it work, mechanically? And for mod's sake think about what you're saying before you claim something that will only help werewolves.
...
Mouth, given you are immune for tonight, what job do you intend to do Day 2?

I don't want to add more information on my role, you guys gave me shit for being honest because it empowers werewolves to know my weaknesses. Give me a reason to justify myself instead of just demanding I add information for you to eat me in the night with ease.

I will probably switch to Jasmine (or another competing wagon), pending Mouth's response to my questions.  (Which also means if he ignores them again, I'll be fairly happy to ride him to a lynch.)

Luxray, I assume you'll choose No Lynch to break a tie at deadline (going by your current vote).  If not, who would you choose (also consider Jasmine as an option)?

You are latching on to every little thing and using it as evidence of wolves. Crying wolf so to speak. I don't understand why people wouldn't be immediately suspicious of a person who keeps swaps their votes and randomly antagonizes people who claim a role. I called you out before, asked you to claim a role, and you didn't deign a reply, then call me out for not answering your stupid question probing for how you. Stinks like wet dog.

@Luxray I would fully support you targeting Renesmee straight out instead of voting no lynch.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Sorry "then call me out for not answering your stupid question probing for how you" should be "then call me out for not answering your stupid question probing for how you can eat me with ease".

[Putin]

I don't understand why people wouldn't be immediately suspicious of a person who keeps swaps their votes and randomly antagonizes people who claim a role. I called you out before, asked you to claim a role, and you didn't deign a reply, then call me out for not answering your stupid question probing for how you. Stinks like wet dog.

If I may field this one?

>Swapping votes.
An important part of the early game, it's not like anyone is going to have a solid Wolf-tell at this point, voting now basically just adds fuel to the later fires as reactions and counter arguments are examined with the hindsight of role reveals. (the reason why double wood burning is essential)

>Antagonising people who claim a role.
I think I've made my opinion of that claim clear. Nothing unusual about Renesemee's reaction IMO

>Asked to claim a role.
And how did that work out for you? Claiming outright on D1, without being at the head of a wagon pressing for it anyway, is double-plus ungood.

>Stupid questions
Remember the 'reactions and counter arguments' section ^ up there? This is it. Town asks questions, the accused answers them (with varying degrees of honesty based on alignment). Town learns things. later, if you flipped town, we can look at your answers and determine the amount of truth you probably told, then we can have a closer look at your questioners.

>Probing for how they can eat you with ease
You already gave them that info. Truthfully or not they don't need to probe for it.

And for mod's sake think about what you're saying before you claim something that will only help werewolves.

Renesemee was even nice enough to remind you to only dole out info that you want the wolves to know in your answer. Key section there being "want them to know" no honesty was requested, you could've thrown any sort of spanner into the Wolves eventual planning, but instead, you responded out of emotion, and shut down. All in all, not great Town play.


And yet, I think that's what it was. Town play. If I'm horribly mistaken, and you are actually just a master of manipulation then congrats, and please don't eat me . On a more serious note, may I make a suggestion? Slow down, before you post, read it again. Examine what your post actually says, and compare and contrast that with what will be read. The big benefit of a text based forum game is that you have plenty of time to consider every response. Responding as you did here will only make people suspicious, Wolves are under more pressure naturally and are more likely to show emotion while posting.
Unvote
No replacement vote for the moment.

[IceIceBaby]

At the moment I'm nit going to shift my vote but I'll reconsider that before deadline.

I don't really have a lynch target today, as of yet nobody really stands out to me at the very least. I know taking the decision to lynch based on this doesn't promote much trust or confidence in others but I'm just thinking it's the most secure way to get guaranteed information. I'm not expecting people to agree with that though.

Also The Mouth of Sauron, Putin is right here, I know Renesmee and he did start the game with aggressive tactics but they seem to have let cooler heads prevail and so should you. Creating enmity between players this early in the game isn't going to get us anywhere in the long run.

[Renesmee]

My apologies if I got personal - that was not my intent.  I did think your claim wasn't good play, and my intentions from there were to pressure you to get a complete claim (I generally think that if you claim, you should claim in full - barring things it doesn't hurt town not to know, and does help werewolves to know), and also to warn people not to claim in the same way.

The purpose of claiming in full is to hold people accountable - they can't just claim whatever they want and then be like, "Don't question me further, just accept it"; an easy hole for werewolves to hide in.

I would still like to know what job you intend to do tomorrow, both so you can be held somewhat accountable for it, and also to be able to offer an alternative suggestion if I don't think your intended plan is a good one.

If it helps, I'm trying to trap you (and anybody) if they're werewolf (lying), while giving them an out if they're town.  By probing a claim, I hope to reveal inconsistencies that might exist in a falseclaim, but won't in a real one.  For example, when you first claimed I thought, "Gather wood to use ability? That makes no sense; we already have a 'collect X to use ability' mechanic, where X is tools." I was actually considering asking you whether your ability got depleted, and whether you needed tools to recharge it ... but I decided not to since that kind of info would help werewolves more than town.  But since you elaborated, it turned out that you were still in keeping with the game's tool mechanic, and your ability was also balanced by being unable to both claim tools and cut wood on the same day.  Hence my believing of your claim.

(Side note, but if there are any powers that enable someone to do two jobs in one day, I guess you know who your target should be.)
(Mouth of Sauron.  Your target should be The Mouth of Sauron.)

Day 1, I think latching onto every little thing is necessary to get the game moving.  It is not necessarily the case that vote=intention to lynch; it can also be for pressure and letting my target know I'm serious in questioning them.

I don't understand why people wouldn't be immediately suspicious of a person who keeps swaps their votes and randomly antagonizes people who claim a role.

I must protest this part (though it might be semantics); I'm not randomly antagonising you; I'm on you specifically because you claimed your role.

I called you out before, asked you to claim a role, and you didn't deign a reply

Are you referring to this:

I maintain my vote on Renesmee because she is too aggressive. I decided to truthfully give out the information to get the ball rolling. Why aren't you claiming your role?

Was this not a sufficient answer?

I'm not claiming my role because either it's a good role and wolves will get more out of the information than town, or it's the opposite of that and I want to draw attention away from the actual good roles (if all 'bad' roles claim, then obviously the good ones are hiding in the gaps).  Everyone claiming might be a good idea, but not until later when town is ideally in control of the game.

If not, I can expand further.

[Renesmee]

I know Renesmee

I guess the jig is up.

OR IS IT?

[Putin]

I know Renesmee

I guess the jig is up.

OR IS IT?

Oh it absolutely is.

[IceIceBaby]

That was poor grammar on my part sorry Renesmee, I was saying "I know Renesmee and he" and in "I know Renesmee and Putin". I'm not claiming and IRL connection, if that is how anybody read that then that was my bad.

[Putin]

That was poor grammar on my part sorry Renesmee, I was saying "I know Renesmee and he" and in "I know Renesmee and Putin". I'm not claiming and IRL connection, if that is how anybody read that then that was my bad.

HEY!
Putin is not of aggressive
Putin just had to save the fellow Russians from Ukrainian rebels use effect wolf hunting methods to save poor Town is all

[Renesmee]

Deadline draws near.  I will claim at/around noon (ie 5 hours) if I'm still the leading wagon.  That will give 9 hours to reevaluate before deadline.

People who aren't me, it's really up to you to decide on an alternative wagon.

[Renesmee]

Mouth, nevermind about which job you're planning on doing tomorrow.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

If I get bit, I claim, if I don't, I cut wood. It's a great role, the Wolves have to spend two adjacent nights attacking me or I don't die. I'm letting them know that *if* they attack me, they need to commit. Naturally, then, it might be easier to just lynch me. The wolves would know that and push for lynching the hardest.

I'm not randomly antagonising you; I'm on you specifically because you claimed your role.

[IceIceBaby]

Could we get a vote count so that everybody is certain of where they stand considering it is right before deadline?
Also if we request a vote count should we bold that or something?

[Leakycauldron]

I did promise a vote count 12hrs before sundown. I'll do one now.

[Princess Jasmine]

To me it is curious that I have been chosen by two people in particular who seem to have decided that my introverted approach so far is warrant enough for lynching. Could this just be an innocent looking approach to getting rid of a townsman in such a way as it could easily be thrown off as a simple mistake of the first day and that I will be used as collateral damage in the apparent quest for information gathering (according to the wolves, they know who they are and they are planning with advantage to the rest of us).

It was played nicely I must admit. Let Saul accuse me on non-participation when at least one other has had as little or less quality stuff being said. But by choosing me they have given the target. Along with this you then have Renessme who, after I had offered my opinions, strategies, thoughts on the matter ALSO claim the roughly same accusation as Saul and again it can be easily diverted as me simply being collateral damage in the first round.

To me it seems strange that targeting one particular person for a reason that is evident in others and actually giving that reason enough credence to risk them being lynched is very suspicious. I would urge other people to consider both Saul AND Renesmee as high candidates for wolf because to me this would have been a great plan from the very beginning to remove a townsman all the while still maintaining innocence and that they are just a casualty of D1.

Remember the wolves work together and therefore are capable of planning inconspicuous plots such as this all the while being able to somewhat maintain innocence and compliance to town activities.

As well as this. Both have decided to get cut wood for the town which in their eyes would divert attention away from themselves as wolves as wood is detrimental to them, especially if they were the only ones cutting wood then they decide to stop cutting wood before the deadline, no wolf could be burned. Maybe this would be a tactic for later days BUT establishing the role of wood cutters at an early stage to pull this move at a later stage would be an awesome strategy.

On top of this their voting habits for mayor were also interesting. It could have been a nice game they played first by both voting for Putin to remove thoughts that they would both vote for themselves. But after a couple of diversionary votes they bother end up voting for Renessmee. It would have been good to have a wolf as Mayor wouldn't it? Finally after realising your vote to get Renessmee as mayor would not succeed, a last minute vote to Putin would put people of your doggy scent. Renessmee also tried to get her wolf partner voting for Putin but he was too late. Still the vote was written down and you BOTH changed to Putin in the last minute because it would be better to have people believe you voted that way for a reason rather than purely as a result of you not electing Renessmee.

On that note I would like to change my lynch vote.

VOTE TO LYNCH: RENESSMEE

[Leakycauldron]

A lot has happened since my last post, so for clarity's sake, I've posted once more. As it stands, at the time of this post, the following will be added to the stockpiles:

2 Food Farmed: Luxray, IceIceBaby
4 Wood Cut: Mouth Of Sauron, Renesmee, Fedoranerd, Saul Goodman
2 Tool Created: Putin, Princess Jasmine.

The mayor has elected to burn two units of wood, so the stockpile will look like this at the end of the day:

1 Food
2 wood
2 tool

So far the lynch-votes are as follows:

[3]Renesmee: Mouth, IceIceBaby, Princess Jasmine
[2]Princess Jasmine: Saul Goodman, Renesmee.
[2]No lynch: Fedora, Luxray

Suspicion votes: Putin


As it currently stands, Renesmee would be lynched before nightfall.

The deadline is available here. In the event of any tie, Luxray will make the decision. From this point onwards I'll be using a bold purple to mark the start and end of a day. Thread will be locked at sundown.

[IceIceBaby]

Okay Princess Jasmine let us get something straight. We have been told previously by the Mod that wolves will not know who each other are until N1. Currently everybody is equally in the dark, wolves voting at this point could just as easily lynch each other, they cannot be working in tandem unless there is some kind of identifying trait they can use subtly in thread and I don't think there would be.
Everything you just said was a major stretch even if wolves could talk and organise during D1, it kind of reeked of desperate self-preservation and I'm not sure if it's in an overly town way.
I was thinking of changing my vote to you anyways, purely because of the lack of posting issue combined with the fact it would produce the lynch I as a player wad looking for.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong but Vote: Princess Jasmine

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