Ethics and Choice

Can I open both doors? The world can't take 2 of me. If "I" am forced to kill "me" I will take sweet sweet revenge

If I woke up in a room with myself I would kill it. Therefore the point is moot

having met you I think that goes for all of humanity Eggs

Darth Skywalkerbacca wrote:having met you I think that goes for all of humanity Eggs

-___-

I want to note that there is one version of myself that is guarenteed to come out on top - the 'true original' of the recent past whose body and mind were copied; that person is the common 'ancestor' of both the original and the clone, and so will 'live on' regardless.

I think I'm overusing inverted commas, but the scenario is really asking for it.

Darth Skywalkerbacca wrote:If I said that you had both been knocked out and both placed in the one room from which only one could escape, you don't know who is the original and who is the clone though.

I am assuming you've done something to break the symmetry in some way, otherwise the original and the clone will just mirror each other forever and you'll never get a resolution (as a side note, being informed which was the original and which is the clone would be a way of breaking the symmetry). I'm going to try referring to these in the third person to limit confusing uses of personal pronouns. I am, though, essentially thinking for both of them.

Both the original and the clone (arbitrary labels really, since they don't know which is which and it doesn't actually matter) will want to survive, and so will have to compete in some way to determine who will escape. My first thought was a fight to the death. Unfortunately, they will be near-evenly matched, so for one to kill the other will probably leave the victor in a near-dead state (although I suppose a good enough initial attack could cripple the loser and make them easier to defeat without much injury). So I think they'd first start to fight in the hope of quickly gaining the upper hand, and if one gets a critical hit, then problem solvered.

If not, however, then I think things would calm down and they'd try to figure out a rational contest to decide who deserves to escape. I like the idea of some philosophical thing, to see who can come up with the best insights. Or maybe some creation of fiction; might as well take advantage of the other's brainpower while you can! Of course, throughout these events each is looking for the opportunity to decisively betray the other, but let's assume that they don't get the chance.

Upon determining a winner, the loser might make a desperate attack. However, I prefer to think that they would have some kind of brainstorming session, wherein the loser tells the winner as many good ideas as they can think of, in as many fields as possible - living on memetically, if not physically. Then, with good grace (hah), the loser allows the winner to escape, and resigns themselves to death. The winner will, for the rest of his (my) days, remember his doomed 'twin', and tell tales of him to any who will listen, in an effort to honour his existance. (Death is of course not a good thing, but I can't help but think that my memory lived on like that, it wouldn't be so bad... In fact, if they realised that from the outset, they might not even try to physically fight at all.)

Room 1.

Really no intelligent choice just hope and trust luck ....

Overlord, you really don't understand people lol.

The King of Eggs wrote:Overlord, you really don't understand people lol.

Ah, but I don't have to understand all people, just myself and my clone, who will be thinking exactly the same way anyway. Now, whether I accurately understand myself is another matter...

Your are nothing but a people. We all follow the patterns of normal human behavior.

what if you have psychopathic tenancies ?

The King of Eggs wrote:Your are nothing but a people. We all follow the patterns of normal human behavior.

Heheh, 'normal'...
Still, I'm interested. How do you think the scenario would play out differently?

Intellectual discussion? In a flight or fight situation? Not in my reality.

It doesn't have to be an intellectual discussion. If you think it would be a fight or flight situation, how do you think it would be resolved, considering the people involved are physically and mentally identical?

something as simple as orientation in the room, orientation relative to MagNorth, temperature, time of awakening, texture of surfaces, or more obviously positioning and transport methods would change the outcome of the flight/fight decision, say they are identical all you like, they won't react the same to the situation.

Lights flash sirens blare and you open the door to Room 1 and either you or your clone walks out it doesn't really matter we hate you both equally.

CHOICE 38:

The Russian Game

Ok this is how it goes, you have a gun with a barrel chamber (the kind you see on old westerns but not really old westerns) this gun is pointed at your best friend, one of the chambers contains a bullet, five do not, for each shot you take without firing the bullet you get one million dollars.

ROOM 1:

WTF? I’m not possibly shooting my bestfriend for money

ROOM 2:

One shot can’t hurt, it is improbable that it will contain the bullet anyway, I promise to go 50/50 with you

ROOM 3:

This is a rush go for two

ROOM 4:

They shouldn’t give the gun to the guy who gets off on adrenaline highs

ROOM 5:

We’re/I’m going to be rich, you know considering you’re probably going to die

ROOM 6:

Stop crying and grow a pair there’s still one chamber I have fired.

ROOM 7:

Screw you I want five million dollars, I’ma gonna empty this clip in yo ass.

How many will you chance firing?

Darth Skywalkerbacca wrote:Lights flash sirens blare and you open the door to Room 1 and either you or your clone walks out it doesn't really matter we hate you both equally.

I should have known that, after all that leadup, we'd get a disappointing conclusion. Anyway, on with the show!

I'm assuming, for the sake of the question, that the bullet is going to be deadly. Now, this answer might not stack up with my previous responses regarding the value of human life, but I'm going to have to go with Room 1. I've been to enough funerals lately.

Now, with a low-enough assigned value for your best friend's life, or a non-fatal bullet and estimates for recovery costs, you could set up a payoff matrix weighted for probabilities and calculate the best answer, but I'm too lazy right now.

ok what if it was just some random I pulled off the street?

I'm actually tempted to go straight for Room 7; which should tell you how much I value 'human' life compared to 'person I know' life.

I have this thing about people I either don't know or are never going to see again. To me, personally, they might as well be dead - they will have no further effect on my life.

Unfortunately, actually killing someone is probably hard. However, I do recall Darth saying once about going with your first instinct and not rationalising yourself out of a decision (which, yes, I concede is a rationalisation in itself).

So let's go with Room 7.

ok what would you say if it was pointed at you, you could fire off as many as you dare and you wouldn't have to go to another funeral if something goes wrong (well you will but you wont be aware of it)

Room 1. I'm of infinite value. Duh.

ok what if it was someone you know but don't really see that often like your candian cousins on your mum's mother's daugther's side?

This is where we enter the grey area of assigning a value and then evaluating the probabilities. However, just because I've never see them in person, that doesn't mean I won't ever see them in the future. Plus, they (particularly their death) will have an effect on my life, primarily through my relatives' grief, but also partially through my own sadness and guilt. Note that my own guilt will be considerable since I sold their life; and also I would be reminded every time I spent that money.

Eh, I might calculate the probabilities later and see if they change my mind. I was tempted to say 'Room 2' just to demonstrate my inclination of not going just with the safe option, but then I realised that, even if I'm successful, I've only (and I admit my evaluation of money probably isn't the best either) got $1 million; and failure means death of the person. So Room 1 again for now.

ok what if it was a non-fatal but crippling shot to yourseld what would you do then?

Depends on the value I could put on it. I assume by 'crippling' you mean 'unable to be healed, no matter how much money you throw at it'?