Re: Werewolf game thread

[Alladin]

Whoops just realized I meant to Vote:Luxray

[Luxray]

My reason for picking wolfs bane was that it came might close to me having to use my power as mayor on the first day. Any wolf seeing this would know that because they are not town like i am it would be a real problem so I feared for my life we already had the required resources for the day so it wasn't a huge mess around. The reason i did it last second was because I am confident in my ability and your ability to see the logic in my actions.

But I am more then happy to answer any other questions you have on the matter.

I must say. It was bad luck for me that someone with a power like saul died. He would of been able to prove my innocence.

[Luxray]

RIP grammar in that post

[Renesmee]

Sauron and Alladin are town.

Oh no, no need to explain that at all.

Not before they have a chance to respond, no.  
Sauron's claim is believable, and reasonably balanced (at least to a similar extent to Saul's and my roles).  The reason for Alladin is simpler, but they didn't realise werewolves didn't know their partners yet, in a pretty realistic way.

Which is great for me (and even more so for anyone who believes me) - the process of elimination has gotten that much easier.  Probably two werewolves between {Putin, Ice, Fedora, Luxray}.


Luxray I'm reasonably convinced on at this point.

they are not town like i am

Please, tell us more about how town you are.

we already had the required resources for the day so it wasn't a huge mess around.

Ehh.  Sure, bare minimum, but we really wanted stockpiles, as was mentioned previously a bunch of times (including by you).

The reason i did it last second was because I am confident in my ability and your ability to see the logic in my actions.

Here's the thing: it didn't matter when you did it.  You could have done it an hour earlier, and given someone else the chance to switch jobs.  Even better, you could have asked someone on wood to switch over to food before you switched.
As for your logic, why didn't you explain it at the time? There was no reason to keep it secret.
Also, why haven't you remedied the situation by farming for food yet today?


I hazard a guess for Putin as second.

OK, given I'm tied for first with Luxray indicated that he would lynch me as a tiebreak, I'll full claim (Putin, you did realise that unvoting Jasmine was essentially a vote for me - I don't like the way you're trying to get two claims for the price of one).

That's a fair conclusion. Not my intention, but a valid conclusion.

Which part was 'not your intention'? The unvote/pseudo vote for me? Or the askling for two claims? And in that case, what was your intention?

[Luxray]

Im so town that Im confident keeping me alive is a good idea.

Because I want to see what resources others are gathering first. Did we really need 4 people on wood? I was for the food stockpile first but no one else was.

[Return of Sauron]

From a balance point of view it would make sense that resources that can be gathered are usable/depleted by wolves or night-aligned mechanics

Wood is key to fire, fire is key to information. If anyone is worried for food stockpile please step forward and farm some.

[Luxray]

Anything you else you would like to know aladin? or are you set on your vote?

I know renmadise is set and im fine with that because i believe shee too is town so i hope i can change her mind

[Putin]

Sauron and Alladin are town.

Oh no, no need to explain that at all.

Not before they have a chance to respond, no.
Sauron's claim is believable, and reasonably balanced (at least to a similar extent to Saul's and my roles). The reason for Alladin is simpler, but they didn't realise werewolves didn't know their partners yet, in a pretty realistic way.

Which is great for me (and even more so for anyone who believes me) - the process of elimination has gotten that much easier. Probably two werewolves between {Putin, Ice, Fedora, Luxray}.

I'm satisfied by this answer.
Unvote

I hazard a guess for Putin as second.

OK, given I'm tied for first with Luxray indicated that he would lynch me as a tiebreak, I'll full claim (Putin, you did realise that unvoting Jasmine was essentially a vote for me - I don't like the way you're trying to get two claims for the price of one).

That's a fair conclusion. Not my intention, but a valid conclusion.

Which part was 'not your intention'? The unvote/pseudo vote for me? Or the askling for two claims? And in that case, what was your intention?

The two claims for one part. My actual intention was to let Luxray pick the lynch. More data and all.

Thanks to Lux's belated switch, we need;
Job: Food

[Renesmee]

Because I want to see what resources others are gathering first. Did we really need 4 people on wood?

Isn't that even more of a reason to go food straight away?

I was for the food stockpile first but no one else was.

I don't think this is true.  Both myself and Mouth of Sauron suggested getting a food stockpile.  I don't think you even mentioned stockpiles until the top of page 5, after the election.

Are you saying you're not picking Wolfsbane today?

From a balance point of view it would make sense that resources that can be gathered are usable/depleted by wolves or night-aligned mechanics

What makes you think so? To my eyes, resources are of such central importance to the town that allowing wolves to use/waste them seems unbalanced - bad enough that they can claim a tool, and at least that they have to do in public.

[Renesmee]

Also, who do you guys think we should lynch?

In hindsight, I think no lynch worked out pretty well. But I really do think we should lynch today - we both have the information for it, what with claims and reads etc, and it will also give us the information needed to carry the game through.

[Luxray]

As your new mayor it pleases me greatly for all your support through the election. As for food and wood collection mouths plan of more food then we have need for seems like a good plan for the long run so i support that action.

Job: Collect food

[Renesmee]

I'm not denying that you wanted it; I'm denying that you were first, and that no one else wanted it.

Middle of page 2:

I propose 3 food and 4 wood day one, with the Mayor picking Wolfsbane.

I'm sure you can understand why I of all people thought lots of food was a good idea.

Also middle of page 2:

3 food 3 wood 2 tools

Though he later agreed with Saul's 2 food.

Top of page 4:

If no one claims powers I suggest double wood and all food. Either a) food has another use other than not killing us and we has enabled it or b) we never need to worry about food again

The part about food having another use also backs up Sauron's claim, incidentally.


Luxray, who would you like to lynch at this point? You think I'm town, and unless your read has changed you think Jasmine is at least vaguely town (since you said you'd pick no lynch over her).  And I'm sort of reading between the lines here but I gather you believed Sauron's claim? So you're choosing between {Putin, Ice, Fedora}.  How many wolves do you think there are?

[Luxray]

My thoughts are that there is 2 wolves currently in game.

I in no way think aladin is townish it was just at that point you were being the most suspect on day 1 hence my vote for you early. Untill you claimed that is.

I would like to wolfsbane again or at least some how survive to be mayor for as long as i can with out throwing the villiage to the wolves

Job: collect food

[Return of Sauron]

I never meant to infer that the town should let such actions occur. What i merely was bringing back to the forefront of the mindset of all active members is that stockpiling should take in consideration that a balance of gathering is spoiling or misuse. Just cause a stockpile is 4 strong doesn't mean that we, as the town, have 4/(count per use) uses available to us. I'd gather food but my role backs me into a corner, afterall why should i make it easier for wolves to nk me?

[Putin]

Also, who do you guys think we should lynch?

I think I've actually broken the game down.
Assumptions:
Lux RoS and Aladdin are town. There are 2 wolves alive.

My plan works regardless of Ren's (Or my) town status.

1. Lux+Aladdin pick bane.
2. RoS cuts wood.
3. We lynch either Ice or Fedora {completely interchangeable}
4. If we get a wolf, given all the current claims the only valid wolf target is Ren. {If we don't hit a wolf, the remainder are both wolves.}

Assuming that Ren is killed and flips town, we lynch the other of Ice/Fedora tomorrow and win. If they kill the other of Ice/Fedora, we lynch Ren and win. If they no kill I have a plan that I'd rather not expand on just yet. if we kill all the listed targets and haven't won, I'm out numbered and you lynch me and win.

What do you guys think? Worth a try?

[Renesmee]

Vote: Putin

Assumptions:
Lux RoS and Aladdin are town. There are 2 wolves alive.

At what point did Luxray become confirmed town?

Yeah, this is how I see that going down:
Lynch Fedora
Wolves kill Ice
Lynch me
Putin and Luxray endgame Sauron and Alladin
(Where Fedora, Ice and I are interchangeable)

I also don't think Sauron and Alladin are quite town enough to be building a breaking strategy around (I'm more sure on Sauron than Alladin).
Also, Putin's partner is not necessarily Luxray, though I suspect so at this point.  But since this plan pulls town-Luxray out of nowhere and oh-so-conveniently leaves them alive at endgame.
I like the way Putin assumes he wouldn't be a wolf target.


May I propose a counterplan:
We ensure today we have stocks for both Day 2 and Day 3, so if we hit wolf today we can all-wolfsbane tomorrow (except for Sauron who can cut wood as normal).  Unfortunately, we can't just wolfsbane tomorrow regardless, since it'll probably be 3-2 Day 3; wolfsbane won't help at 2-2.
5-2 now
4-1 by Day 3 if we hit wolf Day 2
3-1 by Day 4 if we wolfsbane Day 3 but lynch town
Hmm; it'd be nice to have the option of wolfsbaning Day 4 to get us to 2-1 even if we lynch town again, but it would require optimal resource management from here on out.  We'd need 3 food and 4 wood today.

Luxray, for the benefit of *a* plan, if not necessarily this one, would you collect a resource and leave yourself open to a wolf kill? (Also, it would have to be agreed that switching out last-minute is worthy of being lynched for it the next day.)

The other thing is some people might want to claim tools.  To which I mainly ask, just weigh up how important recharging your ability is compared to possibly locking the game down.  Also let us know ASAP so we can plan around it.

[Leakycauldron]

As it stands, at the time of this post, the following will be added to the stockpiles:

2 Food Farmed: Renesmee, Luxray
2 Wood Cut: Princess Alladin, Return of Sauron,
0 Tool Created:

Putin, IceIceBaby, FedoraNerd have not elected jobs today.

The mayor has not elected to burn an extra ration of wood today, so the stockpile would look like :

2 Food
3 wood
2 tool

So far the lynch-votes are as follows:

Luxray: Princess Aladdin
Putin: Rensmemes

The following people have not put in a vote, and will be treated with Suspicion: IceIceBaby, FedoraNerd, Putin, Sauron, Luxray


As it currently stands, the mayor will choose between IceIceBaby, FedoraNerd, Putin, Sauron, Luxray, Aladdin and Renesmee to be lynched before nightfall.

Here's a link to the Sundown deadline

[Alladin]

I was waiting a bit to see if Ice or Fedora would chime in but it seems like that isn't happening at this point, as neither of them have logged on since the new day started.

I guess I'll start with saying that I understand Luxray's reasoning for picking wolfsbane. I don't agree with it at all and I feel that it puts so much suspicion on you that it just isn't worth it to do in the context of you being town. That being said, I also think it's very likely that you aren't night aligned and made a play that seemed like a good idea to you.

Secondly out of the 4 most active players Lux,Ren,RoS and Putin. I'm most suspicious of RoS and Putin. I'm suspicious of RoS mostly because of this

If no one claims powers I suggest double wood and all food. Either a) food has another use other than not killing us and we has enabled it or b) we never need to worry about food again

The idea to stockpile things isn't the worst but 6 food is a bit overkill as there is almost no way that we would ever really get to a day 7 situation. This was posted pretty close to the beginning of day one, at a point where no one else had either hard claimed or soft claimed so when first reading it I just assumed that maybe you had a role that related to food. Then this was posted pretty soon after, literally the first player post after the start of day 1

Tried to post while thread was locked.

Job: Cut wood. I'm the Forester. If I spend the day cutting wood, I can avoid being eaten in the night.

Pretty horrible claim at face value but that's not really what makes me suspicious, i'm just kind of confused as to why you would think that stockpiling food might unlock something more when the role you claimed doesn't allude to anything like that really. All this isn't really super damning but then I realized that you never even tried to vote for yourself as mayor, which I think would be a pretty good idea for someone with an immunity of some kind. Even if the value of mayor was being undersold at the time it would have still made you somewhat more of a target for the wolves, probably making them waste a kill attempt on you. The only reason i can really think of for not making a play like this is wanting to keep your role hidden until endgame where you might be planning some specific play to trap the wolves. However you obviously weren't planning on doing that as you claimed as soon as the day started, in literally the first day 1 post...

As a reborn player it might be hard to justify past actions I just think that the day one plays that were made seem insanely suspect to me. This coupled with the fact that an invincibility claim is the perfect excuse for not ever dying at night time makes me crazy suspicious. Plus the more I think about it the more options claiming the forester role would help if you were night aligned, not only does it explain no night death but it also explains the lack of need for a tool + if you fail a night kill for whatever reason it lets you claim a tool, thus basically stealing it away from possible town use and almost certainly guaranteeing being able to kill the invincible person you ran into, or at least making the town more suspicious of them, for claiming said tool.

Anyway I guess for now I'm going to Vote:RoS I would like some kind of lynch to be made by the end of the day I would heavily prefer Sauron unless there's some huge revelation to the contrary.

I'm not really that apposed to the idea of a plan but at this point I don't really have a confident opinion about anyone being town, which to me makes it hard to pin down a specific plan like you guys have. Right now for me getting Sauron up on the chopping block or at least getting a reasonable expatiation for the plays made on day one and morning one would be my top priority with making sure we have at least 2 food and 4 wood by the end of the say being a second priority. Unless multiple tools are claimed after this is posted in which case building up more of a stockpile of tools would be important.

Speaking of tools I don't need to claim one as of right now, and I'm assuming that Lux, Ren RoS and Putin don't either so until Ice and Fedora weigh in on this I don't think we can really discuss the issues without giving up too much information.

PS: while I was posting this Leaky posted a voting update, the timer says we have almost 2 and a half days but you said in the post that we only have 2 hours is that a mistake or do i need to panic?

[FedoraNerd]

Alright.... sorry about being late, I had a lot of IRL stuff to do.

VOTE: LUXRAY

I cannot believe that you all would be so trusting of someone that dropped food at such a late point in the day. If he was innocent then he should have justified his actions earlier on, and wouldn't have left us with literally zero food stockpiles. Also, his justification of 'I was worried that I might have to use my mayor powers and therefore would be nightkilled' is bullcrap.

Lux, what 'real problem' would the wolves have? Deciding between two tied votes is in no way a problem for the wolves since unless you have investigative powers you haven't mentioned, it'd be a 50/50 shot from your lack of information. Perhaps most damning, however, is that it was never going to happen! As soon as you dropped your vote on Ren, Jasmine was leading. As soon as you voted no lynch, it became 3/3 tied between Jasmine and no lunch. As you'd voted for no lunch yourself, you could have easily made the decision to maintain what you'd voted on at no risk to yourself whether or not either Ren or Jasmine were wolves.

Putin, you know better than to assume that Lux is confirmed townie, and what with your wolfkill immunity claim I'm seriously worrying about you. Not enough to vote, but mostly because the logical fallacies from Luxray are making me vote his way. You're at least still making sense, if basing it off of questionable assumptions.

JOB: FARM FOOD, and I'm not dropping this one.

Guys, IceIceBaby saved us from a starvation town loss. That's just shy of a town confirmation to me. If we'd counted on just the scum to farm for us we could have lost two town to wolf action, and we wouldn't have even known for sure that it was the scum and not just more panic jobs.

[Alladin]

Guys, IceIceBaby saved us from a starvation town loss. That's just shy of a town confirmation to me. If we'd counted on just the scum to farm for us we could have lost two town to wolf action, and we wouldn't have even known for sure that it was the scum and not just more panic jobs.

I think that this is a really great point, however it's good to keep in mind that the night aligned players weren't able to communicate prior to night 1 (to my knowledge) and Luxray didn't change his job until basically on the deadline meaning there's a good possibility that Ice just didn't have time to change his job.

I also feel like people are jumping on Luxray super hard, to be completely honest his excuse didn't really make sense/ wasn't really a good reason. However I don't see a night aligned player having the balls to make such a blatantly suspicious play like that. Maybe he's mind-gaming me really hard but I just can't believe it at this point. That being said if it came down to me being a tie breaker in the voting between say Luxray and no lynch I would vote Lux simply because I think we do need to have a lynch today and even though I'm not suspicious of Lux to advocate lynching him, his behavior has been suspect.

On a different note, I will do everything in my power to lynch anyone who claims a tool and or changes jobs soon before the next deadline without discussing it with the town beforehand.

[Return of Sauron]

@Alladin: a major food stockpile is key due to the starvation mechanic. In previous thoughts, 6 food makes sense as a good start due to the fact that each day we use one food and from a balance point of veiw why add a starvation clause if food is so easily managed? There has to be some other mechanic that makes managing food harder than just farm x and be done. As a forester it is key to my survival that i work on wood. That means that in a single day given n players

N-1 options left after i gather wood
N-2 if the mayor wants a extra ration of wood
N-3 to just get 1 food ( where as i suggest a stockpile leaving about n-4)
That leaves the rest to wolfsbane and tools but this setup doesn't account for wolf distribution thus wolfsbane is like a dummy action to wolves (especially with the loss of the investigator)

I now see that such a high food reliance day 1 was silly and rather we need at least two of each wood and food a day

[Luxray]

I also feel like people are jumping on Luxray super hard,

Shocking really.

Im suspect of people throwing votes onto me so half hazardly. I dont think RoS is night nor Renesmadissle

[Luxray]

Guys, IceIceBaby saved us from a starvation town loss. That's just shy of a town confirmation to me. If we'd counted on just the scum to farm for us we could have lost two town to wolf action, and we wouldn't have even known for sure that it was the scum and not just more panic jobs.

Your vote seems rushed and bandwagony (There is that word again)

I changed at last minute because i saw we had enough food and wood for the night. If it was a play to starve someone out it would of happened. There is no possible way i could of made a starvation play because apparently the wolves did not know each other night one.

If you were to suspect two people of being wolf who would they be?

[Luxray]

Lux, what 'real problem' would the wolves have? Deciding between two tied votes is in no way a problem for the wolves since unless you have investigative powers you haven't mentioned,

Because its great for the villiage to have a town mayor. If a wolf were mayor they would be able to swing ties in their favours if lynchs were swinging towards a wolf.

Plus the mayor has the ability to give out information from night kills. A wolf mayor can say "Nah i wont burn any wood"

Speaking of which Burn extra wood

[Renesmee]

Luxray, please elect to burn two wood.

Guys, IceIceBaby saved us from a starvation town loss. That's just shy of a town confirmation to me. If we'd counted on just the scum to farm for us we could have lost two town to wolf action, and we wouldn't have even known for sure that it was the scum and not just more panic jobs.

That's an excellent point.  I don't know if IceIceBaby was online at the time (he'd last posted two hours prior), so I don't know that it's all that laudable, but I'm thinking FedoraNerd is more town for picking up on it.

On a different note, I will do everything in my power to lynch anyone who claims a tool and or changes jobs soon before the next deadline without discussing it with the town beforehand.

Agreed.  Probably should have made it clear on Day 1, but hindsight etc.

Praise be to voters.  As for people who haven't voted (and I don't know why you wouldn't; it's not set in stone or anything), who would you be reasonably happy to lynch?

I'd like to lynch one of {Putin, Luxray} today.  Sauron and Alladin are town as I said earlier, with FedoraNerd and IceIceBaby bringing up the rear with Fedora picking up about Ice farming our only food.

Thought should be given to what happens if Luxray is wolf, and decides not to burn second wood to spite us as he is lynched.  Obviously not burning is pretty clear wolf so that would confirm Luxray as wolf, and I think the best alternative would be to let the werewolves kill who they like at night, and build up enough food for me to resurrect them the next morning as pretty-confirmed town.  So wolves would essentially be choosing someone to depower instead of kill.

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